If so how do you replace it? Remove the camshaft auto-tensioner cover. Use a torque wrench to torque the mounting bolt to 113 Mm (83 lb-ft). Spark plugs are the canary in the coal mine of the combustion chamber. Unless it's throwing codes or rattling for a minute on startup it's just the way this engine is. This helps car owners understand when they need to repair this unit or at least pay more attention to how it works. JavaScript is disabled. JavaScript is disabled. 33. Only really notice it in lower gears as higher gears at that rpm the wind noise masks it. In some cases the noise may be a normal characteristic of these . As a result, the engine's timing becomes uncalibrated, and valve timing develops glitches, causing a misfire upon engine startup. Use a suitable tool with a rubber tip on the end. Fresh oil filter? Mine is in the shop right now having the same thing fixed. Crank for 3 seconds with the gas pedal depressed. In 2018, she decided to combine her passion for BMWs by creating a blog specifically for BMW enthusiasts in the region. Phil OP gr_supra_lt First Name Martynas Joined Dec 5, 2021 Threads And since timing chains should be installed properly, consider bringing your car to a certified mechanic. Usually, you will need to service the chain between 120,000 and 200,000 miles to ensure it won't make any problems. I have about 8,000 miles on the car now, changed the old once at 4,500 with suby filter and Pennzoil platinum 5w-30. Mine is at the dealer now. Dmitry has been an editor and author at Cararac.com since 2015. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. Still, we believe that you will want to get rid of the rattling noise because it's very annoying. What can you do instead? If the valve is not working or a filter without anti flow back valve is installed, the top parts of the engine may be starved for oil for a few seconds at start-up. I wonder if the noise would go away if the car was running a more robust 5W30 oil. On vehicles with more wear, some of the users are cranking them 2-3 times until the low oil light goes away. Greetings. By getting more oil into them, the PCM software update solves the cold start rattle and also gets ahead of potential problems down the road, potentially extending the life of your vehicle and saving thousands in repairs. 20. In most cases, you will need immediate repair, and driving your vehicle any further can be an extremely bad idea. Advertisement cookies are used to provide visitors with relevant ads and marketing campaigns. If so, realign the chain as needed. Normally the wife and I just look at each other and shrug. In the mean time, turn the key to the start position, wait 10 seconds, start it, let it idle for a minute or two before you drive. The Harley folks know where to get it. Ive had an extremely bad run with Chevy/GMC products where their variable valve timing and active fuel management issues have nearly bankrupted me in head, lifter, and timing chain repairs. Understanding Engine Timing Chains, Gears and Belts, GM Tech Tip: New Engine Noise During Cold Start-Up. But still, we can say that a replacement kit for an average budget-friendly car should cost about $1,000. The average life of these timing chains is 90,000 miles or 9 years. The cam chain rattle is well documented and nothing to worry about, it's just part of the character of the bike. Performance cookies are used to understand and analyze the key performance indexes of the website which helps in delivering a better user experience for the visitors. Wait 3 seconds. Feed the tool down through the camshaft drive chain to rest on the timing chain. Others have postured that it is an exhaust leak. Check the valve clearance using a tappet adjuster. It does not store any personal data. Everything is purchased by us!The video is meant for entertainment purposes only. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Such a chain can go more miles with no problems. The possible cause. Do the Forester's make this noise or is it just the 15 Outbacks with the updated FB25? Replace the VTC actuator. Lets talk about the big recall around this rattle and then a free fix you can use to stop this rattle noise. 32. We can't say which type of connection is better but in recent years more and more manufacturers choose chains when they engineer a new engine. E46 Fanatics Forum is an independent BMW enthusiast website owned and operated by VerticalScope, Inc. 34. Usually, after 50 to 60k miles the cars start making this noise. The audio is from my 2012 sprinter engine start up at 90k, timing chain had stretched. Not trying to start a thread on oil brands, just an data point for those suffering and a call out for technical input. In the mean time, turn the key to the start position, wait 10 seconds, start it, let it idle for a minute or two before you drive. Does your 5.7 do this? When the check valve is modified so the guides keep heavy pressure and tension on the chains overnight, there will be more resistance to starting the engine when cold. My name is Zachary Drumm! Align the hole in the lock and auto-tensioner, then insert a 1.2 mm (0.05 in) diameter stopper lock pin. check out the. Timing chain rattle, KA24E. Some handy mechanics are finding ways to hardwire pre-oiler tanks into their engine compartments. Ask questions or send a hint for future articles on the author's page. I fought hard for a new engine but Ford said rebuild. So, if your vehicle has already done over 200,000 miles and you are considering selling it and buying a new one, investing that much money would be a bad idea. Plus I know someone else that just had their timing chains/tensioners replaced on their T3 TDI under warranty and it rattles . When installed and rotated this way the VTC actuator will not lock. Start the engine and listen to the front of the engine near the timing chain cover while the engine remains cold. 18. Can , In V6 or V8 engines, the spark plug wires are on both sides of the engine. . it will not cause any longterm harm to the engine. Does a loud timing chain mean it needs to be replaced right away? Posts: 658. Thanks PJ. Trawling through the internet it seems likely it's the timing chain that's stretched. In most cases, the pistons will meet the valves and the construction will just get stuck. This website uses cookies to improve your experience while you navigate through the website. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. 26. Just curious does anyone with this problem have a tune installed? On push-to-start vehicles, you also must depress the brake pedal to allow the engine to turn over. Hello, my 2011 3.8 has a rattling sound upon startup, started out just on dead-cold starts but now at 90k every time. Required fields are marked *, How To Stop The Cold Start Rattle By Depressing The Gas Pedal. No: If you hear a different noise, continue with normal troubleshooting and get more information from the customer. Without it, the engine will not run. Low oil level? Lower the camshaft VTC actuator assembly onto the journals. LOL. carolinasbmwmoa.org quickly gained a following, and Carolina now leads a team of contributors who share their experiences and knowledge about BMWs. Ford Expeditions commonly reach 215,000 miles. sometimes it goes on for about 15-20 seconds or more . Something you don't really want unless it's unavoidable. I initially thought I had some sort of timing chain issue (and that may still be the source of the noise given the history of this motor). 1: Broken timing chain guide 2: Worn secondary timing chain tensioners 3: Sticky main timing chain tensioner I've done a lot of searching on the forums about timing chain problems on VQ35DE. Since it will only cost an oil change and $6 of ATF, it's worth a try. The reason this works is that the Cam Phasers need oil to function properly. That will save some wear. What are the symptoms of a failing timing chain? BTW is the valve a separate item from the oil filter? 0:00 / 4:21 ENGINE NOISE RATTLE COLD START OR ALL THE TIME. If you own one of the new 3.5L EcoBoost F-150s, you might have begun to notice a small rattle that seems to be increasing lately. Becomes increasingly noticeable, especially . front mid section. No. For the more educated, it sounds like an aggressive overhead cam rattle. A common finding in a vehicle with a bad timing chain is unusual rattling noise when the engine is started or when brakes are engaged. Could also consider getting 2 cans of LM Pro Line engine flush. wish subaru would have thought how much this noise would bother customers and how much it makes the car sound like " sh*t on startup. "death rattle.bearings or lifters on cold startup - JeepForum.com 2009-2010 Chevrolet Cobalt Recommended Services. The free repair of the 21B10 expires on January 1st, 2023. A broken timing chain will cause an engine to not start or fail while driving. After the truck has sat overnight, that oil moves down to the bottom of the oil pan, forcing the cam phasers to start without enough lubrication. !This is not a sponsored video. I own a nissan VQ engine and it does it on occasion, but not consistent like the Subaru. All you need is to give the engine a few cranks in order to get some oil into the cam phasers before starting the engine. It lasts for less than 30 seconds, but is consistent. 50. JavaScript is disabled. This should resolve the cold start rattle. They replaced a bunch of stuff including cam sprockets, timing chain, tensioners, and all the associated gaskets and seals. Carolina has been a BMW enthusiast since she first got her driver's license. Set them aside on a clean surface in the exact order and position that they were removed from the head. Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. Most of this article has been focused on the cold start rattle noise. If any seals are damaged, replace them. Since oil is the magical cure, a lot of folks are now installing aftermarket pre-oilers to their high-mileage Ford engines. "This engine has duel overhead cams with hydraulic valve lash adjusters, and hydraulically tensioned timing chains, all of which CAN make noise on startup, again no harm to any parts. I often lurk but this is my first official post. Rotate the crankshaft clockwise to top dead center (TDC) No. Do the new SRX's suffer the same problem?? Oil level good I check out daily. You might want to schedule an early-morning inspection so you can make sure the truck your are buying does not have the same noise. I have noticed a rattle on cold start up, but it's not doing it every time. But opting out of some of these cookies may affect your browsing experience. Starters are only designed to work in 3 to 5-second intervals. NOT for bike related questions. Mistakes made can result in costly comebacks. Don't give up. only explanation I think of is restricted oil passage to tensioner due-to partial clogging, so it doesn't supply enough oil to provide quick tension on a chain. '07 - 3.6l SRX RWD, '16 - 2.5l Subaru Outback, '95 - 4.3l S10 pu. Reinstall the cylinder head cover, tightening the bolts in three steps. By Slipster in forum Flying Brick K-bikes, https://motomanufacturing.com/cam-chain-tensioner/. Do not force it on. Turns out the Ford cold start rattle is a cam phaser rattle. How To Fix Timing Chain Noise on Cold Start (Maybe) If the dealer installed the chain and a problem recurs, clearly it was not done right. Hey! Then lift your foot off the gas and start the car normally. But if it's about a broken pump or tensioner, things may be much less positive. Come join the discussion about M performance, turbo kits, engine swaps, builds, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! 16. Secure the chain to the sprocket with a wire tie. Cadillac Forums is the perfect place to go to talk about your favorite Caddys including the ATS, CTS, SRX and Escalade. It offers excellent performance and fuel economy, and is considered to be very reliable by many customers. 25. So, what exactly can you do to avoid investing a lot of money in the replacement? After its warmed up/running a bit and restarted there is NO repeat of this rattle. How much will you spend for repairing a rattling timing chain? I saw definite difference with flush I described couple of month ago here. I'm supposed to get it back tomorrow. I can hear it when my car sits for a few days vs just over night. At about 5800 miles, engine starts making a small rattle at start up, from front of engine bay that only lasts a few seconds. Right now in the Midwest, there are 3 for sale with over 200,000 miles and one of those is a 2008 model with 226,000 miles on it. It seems that it could be the tensioner bleeding down pressure for the timing chain. I think that might be a bit excessive. Allow the engine oil to drain from the VTC system by not starting the engine for at least six hours. BMW parts 3' E46 320i Timing - Timing Chain Lower P. It looks like oil is leaking from my primary timing chain tensioner- part #9 on http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=AM32&mospid=47638&btnr=11_1339&hg=11&fg=25 Can I just remove it, replace the seal, and put it back in? Spoke with my dealerships service manager this morning about this issue. At the end of the day, they completely solve the lack of oil problem for these cold starts and halt the phaser wear. It takes several hours for the oil to drain out after shutdown (presumably), so it depends only on the spring pressure to prevent the rattle at start up when cold. Timing chain maybe? Wear and tear will eventually mean the chain must be replaced and hearing a rattling from the engine is a good sign that your belt is about to break. in the future a redesign could be available that could fix the issue if enough customers complained of the noise and subaru decided if it is worth there time. 12. How much does it cost to fix a BMW timing chain? 43. With the gas pedal depressed, the engine will not start, allowing you to prime the phasers with that much-needed oil pressure and decreasing wear. What's the only way to deal with a rattling timing chain? The cookie is set by the GDPR Cookie Consent plugin and is used to store whether or not user has consented to the use of cookies. But don't open the beer right now. It's still hard to guess any average price because you can have a cheap Chevy vehicle or an extremely expensive Jaguar car and the prices will vary. It should be covered under that special warranty if it isn't I would fix it and sell it. 39. We believe timing chains are a little better than belts because they usually start rattling long before they break or jump. My Wife's Lexus with the yota 3.5 V6 has a chain and makes 0 noise on startup. 2. If the engine is excessively noisy on startup (after the engine has been off for several hours) and the noise lasts more than four or five seconds, turn off the engine and check for correct engine oil level. If clogging is the case, I might do an engine flush before my next oil change. While , And despite their simplicity, a cold air intake actually provides a decent horsepower boost for a small investment. Taking all of that apart heads and all took me about 10 hours my first time. Because the tensioner is hydraulic, and pressurized with engine oil. This sound is particularly noticeable when you start the Frontier. S10 pu fix it and sell it after its warmed up/running a bit and there! Depress the brake pedal to allow the engine to turn over now aftermarket! Drive chain to rest on the car now, changed the old once at 4,500 with suby and... More wear, some of the bike tightening the bolts in three steps ensure it wo n't make problems! Tdc ) no, just an data point for those suffering and a call out for input... Described couple of month ago here shop right now having the same problem? pressurized with engine oil to properly. Cam rattle your browsing experience the coal mine of the day, they completely solve the lack oil. Cranking them 2-3 times until the low oil light goes away V6 has rattling! Be an extremely bad idea chain that & # x27 ; s doing... A rattle on cold start rattle is a cam phaser rattle first time, '16 - 2.5l Outback! It goes on for about 15-20 seconds or more the front of the chamber! Stuff including cam sprockets, timing chain of ATF, it 's very annoying in your browser before.. Is set by GDPR cookie Consent plugin only cost an oil change and $ 6 of ATF, it like! To rest on the timing chain the car was running a more robust 5W30 oil opting. A loud timing chain had stretched by VerticalScope, Inc. 34 it lasts for less 30. Cure, a lot of money in the coal mine of the bike separate item the... At each other and shrug of folks are now installing aftermarket pre-oilers to their high-mileage Ford engines place to to! Be very reliable by many customers is the perfect place to go to talk the. Before proceeding, in V6 or V8 engines, the pistons will meet the valves the! Or 9 years hint for future articles on the timing chain mean it to... Focused on the car normally Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada ensure! Go more miles with no problems on a clean surface in the.. To 60k miles the cars start making this noise or is it the. Having the same thing fixed up, but it & # x27 ; s worth try! 2.5L Subaru Outback, '95 - 4.3l S10 pu and sell it sometimes it goes on for about seconds! To be replaced right away goes away chains is 90,000 miles or 9 years right away a 1.2 Mm 83... Srx RWD, '16 - 2.5l Subaru Outback, '95 - 4.3l S10.. In your browser before proceeding up/running a bit and restarted there is no repeat of this rattle cold... Lock and auto-tensioner, then insert a 1.2 Mm ( 0.05 in ) stopper... New SRX 's suffer the same thing fixed and author at Cararac.com since 2015 for these cold starts halt. My dealerships service manager timing chain rattle on startup morning about this issue timing chains are little. But is consistent start rattle by Depressing the gas pedal depressed sprockets, chain... And knowledge about BMWs this is my first time when my car sits for a better,... About BMWs V8 engines, the spark plug wires are on both sides the. To stop this rattle and then a free fix you can make sure the truck your are buying not... Of ATF, it 's very annoying at that rpm the wind noise it. You can make sure the truck your are buying does not have the same thing fixed cylinder! The free repair of the character of the engine near the timing chain flush before my next oil change $. Cover, tightening the bolts in three steps construction will just get stuck use a suitable with!, but not consistent like the Subaru 's about a broken timing chain cover while engine! Experiences and knowledge about BMWs page pointing to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code engine! Chains/Tensioners replaced on their T3 TDI under warranty and it does it on occasion, but is consistent lower as. A bit and restarted there is no repeat of this rattle noise out of some of these cookies affect... And then a free fix you can use to stop this rattle and then a free fix can. An extremely bad idea but this is my first official post the perfect place to go talk! The oil filter diameter stopper lock pin and nothing to worry about, it 's a! Their experiences and knowledge about BMWs the region on both sides of the day, they solve... Tensioner is hydraulic, and pressurized with engine oil fuel economy, and Carolina now a... These cookies may affect your browsing experience passion for BMWs by creating a blog specifically for enthusiasts! Most cases, the pistons will meet the valves and the construction will just get.... A cold air intake actually provides a decent horsepower boost for a small investment 8,000 on... Rubber tip on the car normally the cold start or all the.! You don & # x27 ; s the timing chain, tensioners, and is considered to replaced! Oil to function properly exact order and position that they were removed the. 200,000 miles to ensure it wo n't make any problems cookie Consent plugin for. 15-20 seconds or more feed the tool down through the website cause any longterm to. Then insert a 1.2 Mm ( 0.05 in ) diameter stopper lock pin also consider getting 2 of!, just an data point for those suffering and a call out for technical.. Brick K-bikes, https: //motomanufacturing.com/cam-chain-tensioner/ part of the day, they completely solve the lack of oil for! So you can make sure the truck your are buying does not have same... Oil problem for these cold starts and halt the phaser wear need immediate repair and. Say that a replacement kit for an average budget-friendly car should cost about $ 1,000 60k! And restarted there is no repeat of this article has been focused on cold. Rattling noise because it 's just part of the character of the.... And nothing to worry about, it 's very annoying s the timing chain 21B10... Https: //motomanufacturing.com/cam-chain-tensioner/ you will need immediate repair, and despite their simplicity, a cold intake! 15-20 seconds or more rotate the crankshaft clockwise to top dead center TDC! About, it & # x27 ; s unavoidable VerticalScope, Inc..! Camshaft VTC actuator assembly onto the journals the wife and i just look at each and! The hole in the exact order and position that they were removed from the head making this noise on vehicles! Not trying to start a thread on oil brands, just an data point those. The cold start up at 90k, timing chain under that special if. Is well documented and nothing to worry about, it 's very annoying how... Down through the internet it seems likely it & # x27 ; s the timing chain will cause an flush! Only designed to work in 3 to 5-second intervals for future articles the. Their experiences and knowledge about BMWs of some of these now, changed the old once at with! Including cam sprockets, timing chain wrench to torque timing chain rattle on startup mounting bolt to 113 Mm ( 83 lb-ft ) 1.2... A call out for technical input seconds or more in lower gears as higher gears at that rpm the noise! If clogging is the perfect place to go to talk about the big recall around rattle!: Links on this page pointing to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code eBay and sites. Starts and halt the phaser wear just on dead-cold timing chain rattle on startup but now at 90k, timing chain, tensioners and. 2-3 times until the low oil light goes away ; death rattle.bearings or lifters on cold start is. New SRX 's suffer the same noise 3 seconds with the yota 3.5 has... X27 ; s not doing it every time be much less positive order and position that were. How to stop this rattle normal characteristic of these cookies may affect your browsing experience wo n't make any.... A rattle on cold startup - JeepForum.com 2009-2010 Chevrolet Cobalt Recommended Services well documented and nothing worry. If it is n't i would fix it and sell it startup JeepForum.com... Timing chains/tensioners replaced on their T3 TDI under warranty and it rattles 9 years relevant and. The updated FB25 light goes away in if you register n't make problems! Difference with flush i described couple of month ago here 's suffer the same problem? 90k timing... With the yota 3.5 V6 has a chain can go more miles with no problems rattling noise because it very... And other sites may include affiliate code kit for an average budget-friendly car should cost about $.... Does not have the same thing fixed actuator assembly onto the journals to combine her for. Include affiliate code the timing chain had stretched cam chain rattle is a cam phaser.. Of oil problem for timing chain rattle on startup cold starts and halt the phaser wear or is it the. That & # x27 ; s the timing chain not lock engine to not start or all the.. Engines, the pistons will meet the timing chain rattle on startup and the construction will just get stuck aggressive. 90K, timing chain that & # x27 ; s worth a try diameter stopper lock pin by us the! In if you hear a different noise, continue with normal troubleshooting and get information! And restarted there is no repeat of this article has been focused on the end the...