difference between 428 and 428 cobra jet

Compression was lowered from 10.7:1 to 9.0:1, and in 1971 it actually made 5 horsepower less than the standard 351 at 280 horsepower. In second place is the 1968 Ford Mustang 428 Cobra Jet. A police interceptor may have an "A". When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. The table below summarizes the part differences between the two engines. Besides the T-Bird, there were Galaxies, Thunderbolt Fairlanes, Mustangs, Torinos, and both the AC Cobra and GT 500 Shelbys. It appears that Ford went through at least three piston designs during the 428 CJ and SCJ production run to address durability problems. The big-block Chevy had the edge in breathing ability, but this move closed the gap between the two engines a great deal. Comparison of Major 428 Engine Components, 1968 428 Cobra Jet Drag Strip Modifications, 428 CJ Mustangs at the 1968 NHRA Winternationals, Classic Mustang Warranty Plate/Certification Label Decoder, Cast iron, similar to PI with revised carburetor bore risers, relocated carburetor pad, and radiused riser to upper and lower logs to improve fuel/air distribution, Production 390 GT cast iron light car manifolds, Redesigned high flow, low restriction unique to the 428 CJ, Redesigned dual inlet with hot/cold start-up system. (REGISTERED USERS DO NOT SEE THIS POST/AD! There was some overlap of the C and A markings on the rear block face which means many early CJ's have the A on the block while many police and pasenger 428 engines have the C marking. document.getElementById( "ak_js_3" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Get Your Top 50 Fastest Muscle Cars ChartFREE! Luckily, Tasca Ford pioneered a high revving 428 engine nicknamed the KR-8 as a direct replacement for the low-revving 390 FE engine. Combined with their burgeoning competition with the new Chevy Camaro, Ford decided to put a modified 428 heavily based on Tascas 428 into the Mustang for 1968. In the March 1968 issue of Hot Rod magazine, a 68 Mustang CJ ran a 13.56-second quarter-mile time, traveling at 106.6 miles per hour. The C marking on the rear face of blocks predated the CJ era. What's the difference between a 428, 428 Police interceptor, and a They were almost a direct fit, and Tasca called his new creation the KR-8 Mustang. I want to register an account for free right now! However, Ford ran into a problem. Cobra Jet engines received low-riser heads with a "rough-cast" combustion chamber (2.09int.-1.66ex. The engine engineering personnel who worked for me on the 428 program were Paul Lampela, Frank Gondoly, Bob Snider, and Matt Hecht. Component Identification | Mustang 428 Cobra Jet Registry Sorry, here's the other page. Increased Ebay value in a few strokes of a hammer! But there are other types of 428's and 429's floating around out there, built for different purposes, i.e. Ford released a few high performance variants of the 429, including the Boss 429 and the Cobra Jets. "A standard 428 will have a U1 crankshaft ballanced on the inside of the ballancer but weight added on crankshaft . The rarest of the bunch are the 68's. The most vaulable Cobra Jet is the 1968 Shelby GT500KR convertibles, which can go for as much or more than a BOSS 429. Lots of people have different opinions about the "Drag Pack" option described above, what it included, and which cars it was available for. You cannot really compare 69 with the 74 cars. Ford got down to business and began by beefing up the bottom of the 428 block casting, which included heavier main bearing caps. But times were changing, and sales were soft for performance cars across the board, and not just at Ford. There were slight differences in the base and higher trim Ford Cobra Jets, yet they were all rated the same 335 horsepower, likely meaning Ford was really sandbagging the numbers the whole time. The A blocks were made until mid 1968 model year. A limited number of Cobra emblems placed strategically on the exterior warned people what lurked under the hood. YES! Super Cobra Jets also had oil coolers as standard, which were options for the Cobra Jets. They were almost identical to the standard Cobra Jets, but had stronger internals. what's a 428 cobra jet engine worth | Hot Rod Forum They were the be-all and end-all of rods back in the sixties, but metallurgy has far surpassed them today. The heads ID themselves. The spirit of Bob Tasca and Carroll Shelbys original 427/428 hybrids still live on today if youre lucky enough to see one in person. The Ford Cobra Jet and Super Cobra Jet were introduced in 1970, and they were improvements over the 428s. I have a 428 FE engine in my car from back in the day (60's). Super Cobra Jet horn detail (note the jumper wire and reinforcement bracket) Sadly, Ford discontinued the 429 Cobra Jet Mustang and other CJ-powered cars halfway through 1971. The value is markedly different (about double). So instead, you have to examine the axle code on the door tag for a V or a W to verify its legit. Additionally, Ford simplified several exterior styling features due to a sales dip in 1969 attributed to aggressive styling. Mustang buyers who selected either of the optional 3.91:1 or 4.30:1 rear end gear ratios got more than just an optional axle ratio! Piston part numbers are marked (R) for red size and (B) for blue size to note options for selective fit based on normal production tolerances. First, the 1969 price list: April 17, 1969 Mustang Drag Pack Option Description, June 1, 1970 Mustang Drag Pack Option Description, Cobra Jet Connecting Rod 1999 - 2022 Scott A. Hollenbeck. The heads and intake were unique to the 428CJ. Consequently, Ford used Holman Moodys 428 engine as the inspiration it desperately needed to help reclaim its rightful place at the top of the pony car market. This is an internally ballance assy . Ford had introduced the 385 series in 1968, and the 429 first appeared in the Thunderbird. In 2020, Ford switched from massive superchargers to an all-electric platform, but dropped jaws by making 1,500 wheel-horsepower a worthy trade-off to get rid of the internal combustion engine.The future of the Cobra Jet is unknown, and its unclear whether Ford will ditch petrol for good and switch to electric, or if that was a one year anomaly. FE & FT Big Block V8 (332, 352, 360, 390, 406, 410, 427, 428) - difference in 428 blocks? The CJ block differs from the plain 428 due to the additional webs cast into the main bearing saddles. A police interceptor may have an "A". The CJ block differs from the plain 428 due to the additional webs cast into the main bearing saddles. The Mercury division of Ford put the 428 Cobra Jet in their Comets and Cyclones, and Shelby used one for his new GT500KR (King of the Road). Last edited: May 19, 2013 FrozenMerc, May 19, 2013 SHARE POST #3 hoop98 Member 1968 through 1970 428CJ blocks were beefed up between the bores and main webbing areas for anticipated higher horsepower output. Instead, "Tasca Ford"the second-largest Ford dealership in the world in the 1960sinspired the 428CJ revolution. Midway through the 1967 model year, the 427 was swapped out for a newer 428 Cobra Jet engine equipped with a Holley four-barrel carburetor. The difference was forged pistons, solid lifter cam and four bolt mains. A fairly mild hydraulic cam combined with the good-guy Low Riser cylinder heads made for an engine with a flat torque curve and good horsepower numbers. Each engine was from a different Ford engine family, with the 428 and 429 both being big blocks. During the 1970 model year, "DETROIT LOCKER DIFFERENTIAL" appears on the invoice of vehicles that came with a factory Detroit Locker. the 428 CJ. It was available in the new Camaro in 325-, 350-, and 375hp forms (a 425hp version had been available in the Corvette for '65). In lieu of reverting back to the factory 428 head castings, Tasca put heads from the 427 instead. The rest of the info is the same. But there was one thing about the 428 CJ that left everyone puzzled. There have been rumors of cars being delivered with SCJ engines and other axle codes, and V- or W-code axles and no SCJ engine. The Ford 427 became immortalized in 1966, when Ken Miles piloted it during the 1966 24 Hours of Le Mans (later chronicled in Ford v. Ferrari). Thought they would both go same time. But there are other types of 428's and 429's floating around out there, built for different purposes, i.e. Crankshaft | Mustang 428 Cobra Jet Registry Educate me! The front maintained a full-width grille with an updated horizontally slatted grille, and, in the rear, the Cougar now came equipped with taillight lenses that were concave instead of convex. Keith, Cobra Make, Engine: ERA Street Roadster #782 with 459 cu in FE KC engine, toploader, 3.31, also police interceptors had solid lifters and adjustable rockers---GT & CJ were hydraulic, Cobra Make, Engine: CSX #4xxx with CSX 482; David Kee Toploader, Reading this brings up a question that I've always wondered about. Tim K, Cobra Make, Engine: Shell Valley- smallblock grenade w/ the pin pulled. Pontiac had its GTO as well as the new twin sister to the Camaro, the Firebird, and each was available with a 400ci engine. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. The most iconic are probably the Ford Cobra Jet Mustangs, which won numerous drag racing championships. The Thunderbolt proved to be a very fast factory team drag racer--and proved again that the FE engine could be a formidable competitor. The company was aware of the new Camaro project brewing over at Chevrolet. However, buyers would have to order the GT package if they wanted to get their hands on one in 1968available in either a coupe or fastback body style. 1968 was the year the wild Mustangand all other Ford modelsfell prey to the untamed Cougar. Though I've seen references to engineering numbers on flexplates, I've never actually seen any kind of stamped or cast number on a flexplate. The value is markedly different (about double). What's the difference between a 428, a 428 Cobra Jet and a 428 SCJ? Or YES! By 1974 the emissions crap that was added to the engine killed the power. Known as the Thunderbolt, this Fairlane saw very limited production and was built as a factory lightweight race car. 428 Engine Specifications | Classic Cars - CarMemories.com Ford 7-Liter Engines Deciphered: 427, 428, 429 | Themustangsource As with most deceptions, the ruse was quickly unmasked as the NHRA factored the 428 CJ into higher classes so it couldn't bully weaker machinery. The axle code in the order image is "8" (which means 3.50:1 open) and the car's data plate has an axle code of "W". The big difference was the price (at $622, the 427 cost $188 more than the $434 428 CJ), transmission availability (the 427 was only teamed with the C6 automatic), carburetors (the 427's single Holley four-barrel rated 600 cfm, 135 less than the 428 CJ), and rated output. Certainly the 428 was a torque machine, and if you had enough carburetor for about 5,000 rpms, that was about as fast you needed to spin that engine anyway. The peak torque of 452.4-lb-ft at 3,700 rpm is also higher than Dearborn's claim of 445 lb-ft at 3,400. In the quarter-mile, a one-second difference is a lot of car lengths. Although the 390 had been offered in the Mustang, the FE had seen incarnations of up to 428 ci. Common to both were vital details such as camshafts, intake manifolds, valve and port sizes, and compression ratios. YES! Not too common, maybe a total production of 15,000. He had been involved in the Thunderbolt program back in 1964. The 428, on the other hand, has a smaller bore and longer stroke producing more torque and is well-suited to street-strip action. The difference in displacement between the two was achieved via stroke, with the 429 checking in at 3.590 . A forum community dedicated to Mercury Cougar owners and enthusiasts. Cast iron exhaust manifolds. In the 60s-70s, Ford put the Cobra Jet and Super Cobra Jet engines in Mustangs, Thunderbirds, and of course, Cobras. The largest was the 390 cid, which Ford first brought out in 1961. Chevrolet wasn't Ford's only problem in the performance department. Welcome to Club Cobra! However, the original Mustang platform, as popular as it was, could not accept the larger engines Ford already had in its product lineup, because the engine compartment was simply too small. The smaller bore of the 428 was well within normal production line capabilities. 427 vs. 428 vs. 429 | Ford Muscle Cars Tech Forum The longer stroke (3.98 vs. 3.78 for the 427) gave the engine powerful low-end punch. The 1975 MPC clearly notes that the 1969 and 1970 radiator core supports were serviced using two different part numbers (C9ZZ-16138-A and D0ZZ-16138-A); the report I have is that the 1970 support is shaped in such a way that the bracket doesnt fit and isnt needed. 428 cobra jet vs. 460 - Club Cobra The original production run only lasted for six years, from 1968-1974, but it made an incredibly outsized impact. They have released new Cobra Jets every two years, with 2022 being the first exception so far. In the August 1968 issue of Super Stock & Drag Illustrated magazine, a 68 Cougar XR7-GT tripped the quarter-mile in 13.23 seconds, traveling at 103.4 miles per hour. The increasing shift towards electric power plants makes it likely that any future Cobra Jets will be electric. In the January 1969 issue of Motor Trend magazine, a 69 Cyclone CJ 428SCJ ran a 13.86-second quarter-mile pass at 101.7 miles per hour. They were still rated the same 335 horsepower as the Cobra Jets, which was probably still underestimated by 100 horsepower. It was a good-looking car featuring wide availability in its engine selection. The block and head are both cast iron, and the bore and stroke were 4.13 X 3.98. Note that it was not thought to be possible to order an SCJ engine by itself -- the only way to get your hands on an SCJ in a Mustang was to order the optional 3.91:1 or 4.30:1 rear end gear ratios. 428 Cobra Jet Standard was 2.09 inch intake and 1.66 inch exhaust valves. Carroll Shelby, Bob Tasca, and the Hybrid 427/428 Engines, Best Ford Fox Body Mustang Performance Upgrades. Now. Enter Bob Tasca, a Ford dealer who had a history of experimenting with Ford big-blocks for his dealership-sponsored race cars. The World's largest Technically a midyear offering, the 1968 1/2 CJ combined 427 Low Riser heads, a cast iron copy of the aluminum 390 Police Interceptor intake manifold, the 390 GT's hot hydraulic cam, a healthy 735-cfm Holley four barrel, and streamlined exhaust manifolds to fight off the 396s, 440s and 400s from the competition. When this 428ci engine was installed in the Mustang, Shelby called the car the GT500. But, for many, it was far too inconspicuous for them to realize it before seeing its taillights. Of course there's the Boss 429, but thats a horse of completely different color. Be sure to check the bore 4.13 and measure the distance between the cylinder cores. The W-code 427 and 428 CJ shared just about everything except main bearing caps and bore/stroke dimensions. There have been eight new models since then, culminating in the 50th Anniversary Cobra Jets for 2018. I have a 69 428 SCj hardtop, and the word SUPER is stamped (not cast) onto the flat surface behind the head on the right of the engine. * These are service part numbers, not engineering numbers. 390 and 428 are different. Many aficionados of the Cobra Jet Mustang consider the '70 version to be the nicest of all, combining the last year of the FE engine with the last year for the '69-'70 body style. stronger. now if your talking 429scj vs. 428 scj i would give the nod to the 429scj. Cobra Jet Mustang production continued into 1970. Is a 428 a cobra jet or is the cj a special 428 and is the block different between the cj and non cj. ). The Mercury Cougar underwent styling updates in 1969, including transitioning to Coke bottle styling and eliminating side vent windows. The cars ran very well and won in the Super Stock category that year. This became a private war between the automakers. 390 Vs 428 block | Vintage Mustang Forums They had introduced the 385 series in 1968 to start replacing the outgoing FE series. In fifth place is the 1969 Mercury Cyclone CJ. None of the parts of the 428 SCJ reciprocating assembly interchange with their 428 CJ counterparts. But, from the factory it was never as powerful as the (solid lifter) 427. I am a 351W guy. This marked the end of the original run of Ford Cobra Jet engines and vehicles. The V-code designated a 3.91:1 rear axle ratio, while the W-code meant a 4.30:1 rear axle ratio. Also does the cj have a lot of low end. The 1967 Shelby GT500 featured a new 428 cid engine that had been used in the Thunderbirds and Galaxies. Be sure to subscribe if you like content like this! Required fields are marked *. Can be ID'd be block casting numbers of C8SE, C9VE, D0VE, D1VE among others and head casting numbers of C8SE, C9VE, D0VE among others. The Formal Roof versions were the ultimate sleeper, looking like your average everyday grocery getter to any unsuspecting contenders that pulled up next to it at a red light. Cobra Make, Engine: Everett-Morrison LS1, IIRC look at the exhaust manifold bolt pattern-------------the 390GT and 428CJ had a different bolt pattern (had some more holes and an tab on the head for the pattern--the standard engines only had the vertical pattern with a bolt at top and bottom of port, Cobra Make, Engine: Kellison Stallion 468 FE, Cobra Make, Engine: Kirkham 427 brushed aluminum with Keith Craft 527C.I. Introduced in 1958 for service in fullsize Fords as well as the Thunderbird, the FE had seen a long and colorful career. The 428CJ also used a superior cast iron intake and better exhaust manifolds. If you want to discover which 428 Cobra Jet powered Fords were the fastest muscle cars, how the engine originated, which vehicles had it, and how the 428CJ differs from the 428SCJ, then read on. http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/fe-talk/10782-another-dumb-question-428cj-vs-428scj-whats-difference.html, https://www.hemmings.com/magazine/hmn/2009/04/Ford-429CJ-and-429SCJ-V-8/1796187.html. Most of the differences have been listed except for one major difference. You might as well lead the way. The new 2008 Ford Cobra Jet Mustangs were built strictly for the drag strip, so they werent even given VINs. I have a set of stamps capable of stamping SCJ or Holman Moody or anything else you like into a block. The Q-code Cobra Jet 428 was rated at a very conservative 335hp @ 5600rpm. The 428 SCJ was first introduced during the 1969 model year. They did so to honor the 1968 Mustangs that won the NHRA Winternationals, and inaugurated the first Cobra Jet era. The Mustang still used small blocks in their engines, with the 289 cid being the largest available. Super Cobra Jet harmonic balancer counter weight, 3 Ford discontinued the 429 Cobra Jet and Super Cobra Jet options after 1971, largely due to the increasing emissions restrictions. 428 Cobra Jet Standard was 2.09 inch intake and 1.66 inch exhaust valves. Ford released the original 428 in 1966, and in 1968 the Cobra Jet variant was born. Ford rated the engine at 335 horsepower and 440 lb-ft of torque, but that was probably understated for insurance purposes. : For registered members this ad will NOT show, Cobra Make, Engine: Unique Motorcars (sold). The original Ford Cobra Jets never made it past the 1970s, as increasing emissions restrictions and environmental and energy concerns ended up converging to squeeze the Cobra Jets out of existence. Typical Cobra Jet Crankshaft Several different cranks were used in 428 CJ and SCJ engines during the course of production. The Boss and Cobra Jets had the same block with four bolt mains, short skirts, and thin wall castings. If I can, I will try to get a picture of the "SUPER" stamp to show. Grue up with Ford FE. I think, but don't remember, that the SCJ would come in cars optioned with the "drag pack.". Nineteen-seventy was the last year for the venerable FE-series big-block engine in the Mustang and Cougar. Performance options aplenty: tach, styled steel wheels, power front disc brakes, power steering, Traction-Lok differential (3.50, 3.91 or 4.30 axel ratios), bucket seats, racing mirroryou name it. . Super Cobra Jet horn reinforcement bracket The CJ had the good heads, cam but had the iron intake. The 1969 Mercury Cyclone continued on the Montego platform in the fastback form, and the GT was no longer a model, available as an appearance-only package. A date code correct 69 428 block could be worth a decent buck. The 429 heads were incredibly free flowing, and in reality some of the best Ford big block heads ever created. The 428 also got a single snorkel air cleaner and had a Holley 735 cfm carburetor. 429 Cobra Jet and Super Cobra Jet Vehicle Applications. I've heard from others who've reported finding C6AE-C, C6AE-D, and C6AE-F rods in what they believe to be original engines. Also, there is an S between the 8 & the C Cobra Make, Engine: I Wish, Just an old truck with an FE, Cobra Make, Engine: Kirkham 427 (KMP 266); CAV GT40, also forged pistons,and an electronically balanced crank shaft on the SCJ;all reliability issues not HP ones. There was a special designation in the database to tell which cars had these installed". However, it wasnt Ford Engineers that first developed this impressive powerplant. Two-bolt main block Between 345-360 horsepower 428 Super Cobra Jet Internal structure differences included Lemans type cap screw rods 1969 Ford Mustang Mach 1 428 Super Cobra Jet Muscle Car Of The Week Video Episode #91The Mach 1 handling and appearance package made for some good looking an. While the 1970 Ford Mustang Mach 1 came in eighth place on this list, it came in 21st place in the fastest muscle cars of 1970 rankings. Compression was either 10.5:1 or 10.6:1, with 10.6:1 taking over from 1969-on. With a bore and stroke of 4.36 X 3.59, the 429 has a larger bore but smaller stroke than the 428s. In addition, when equipped with a 4-speed, the rear shocks were staggered. Unlike the 351, Ford based the 428 Cobra Jet and Super Cobra Jets on the FE series of engines. Unless specifically noted this comparison does not include the parts that are unique to the 428 Super Cobra Jet engine. In the quarter-mile, a one-second difference is a lot of car lengths. are identical. This package became notorious in slang as the Drag Pack. The later piston, which appears starting around December 1968, is marked "428" and "SUPER" (thanks to Randy Pollock for the picture), and differs from the earlier pistons by having additional metal in the pin boss area. The 428 Cobra Jet powered some of the fastest Ford Muscle Cars from 1968 to 1970, over nine Ford and Mercury models.